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to keep in mind is that we're not -- we flipping around the term "dell ceiling. -- debt ceiling." what we're talking about here is congress' power to borrow money and how we should be paying our bills based on that or some other med of -- method of raising revenue. so i think that's important to keep in mind. >> mr. hoagland, you were a member of that task force as well. >> yes. and in fairness, congressman, that task force also recommended a balanced plan that included tax increases as well as spending cuts, more on the spending side than the reduction in the rate of growth. the occasions of the debt level that were headed at 77% growing into the future i think has jeopardized, quite frankly, our standing in the world. when we have about 40, 50% of in this debt owned by invest beers outside of the ideas -- investors outside of the united states, we're raising questions about the sovereignty of this country going forward. and in terms of where's the turning point, i think that's the problem most economists would say they can't answer that question. who knows when that last drop into the t
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